Audio recording-gain control

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Jokeyman123
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Audio recording-gain control

Post by Jokeyman123 »

Just recorded a 2-track stereo audio recording-and wow does this thing sound "pristine" for audio. No noise at all. However-I'm not sure-is there a gain input control for the audio recorder tracks, or do I always need to drive the inputs at 100%? The manual isn't clear-I know how toset the audio levels relative to other tracks and to each other-but it is not clear whether the setting for audio is just for balancing playbaclk mixes or is an actual kind of "gain control for the audio ins? also something else I noticed-although I had not recorded any midi tracks-started with 2 audio tracks-the metronome on the Fusion automatically synchronized with the tempo of the audio recording-at least that's what i seemed to be doing-I watched the tick counter go by-and the audio was synched directly to the metronome-which means any subsequent midi tracks will be synced with these original audio tracks? If so-this is very useful, very good.
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Re: Audio recording-gain control

Post by parametric »

Fusion Ref p185 - There is a small knob on the back, near the sampler inputs which adjusts the level . . .

I DON'T KNOW if this works for Audio recording in <Song> Mode though . . . .? I don't see why not . . . . :roll:

The Multitrack I/Ps ARE configurable to -10dbA (Consumer) or +4dbA (Pro) - according to what you are feeding in . . .

One thing to note if you are recording Audio in <Song> Mode . . . .

Once you have decided on a tempo (and recorded Audio) DO NOT alter the Tempo . . . .

The Fusion cannot stretch or shrink Audio to suit . . . . . It will remain the same and simply play W A Y out of sync with the new Tempo . . .

Most DAWs of course CAN do this . . . .

Chris
Alesis Fusions 8SSD + 6SSD/384Mb/120Gb SSD/Yamaha SY85/8.5Mb/1024kb/Yamaha MOXF6/1024Mb Flash/Akai ADVANCE61/NI Komplete11 Ultimate/Roland MT32/Bachmann double overstrung Baby Grand Piano/Win10 Pro/Ubuntu Mate 15.04/M-Audio MicroTrack

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Re: Audio recording-gain control

Post by Jokeyman123 »

Thanks Chris-yes the sensitivity settings for audio inputs are in the global menu, I didn't think to look there, and its in the manual-surprised me there! The back level control is for the sampling inputs-unless I patch those into the audio inputs, it will not effect the gain for the audio recorder-but switching to +4dbu or -10dbv does boost the input-at least with the DTXtreme drum module, which does not specify if it is +4 or -10 output-I am suspecting it is a typical non-TRS line output since I can set all volume levels reasonably low with -10dbv but have to jack everything up using +4dbu. And the volume controls/mixer for each audio channel only seem to affect the playback output-so the recording gain levels must be fixed in the Fusion for audio recording which is fine-I have several small sub-mixers i can patch in if I need to plug in a guitar/bass/condenser or dynamic mike or mikes.

What's tough about all this-the Fusion is so versatile, and sounds so amazing-and I'm going more and more to the Fusion for my piano techniques over everything else I have-what's tough-I don't need much of the rest of my recording decks, keyboards and "dance" boxes anymore, for an equipment junky, this is quite an adjustment. I just bought an old Focusrite firewire audio/midi interface, just for fun. Plug its outputs into any of the Fusion's audio ins-and instant mini-me direct box for condenser/dynamic mikes, guitars or just about anything-with no need for my digital deck anymore. And the Focusrite of course has S/PDIF stereo outs. Why in heck this workstation is still not being made-if more VST and software junkies got their hands on one of these....well I have mine...bwaa-haaa-haaa! :lol:
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Re: Audio recording-gain control

Post by parametric »

Yeah Joe,

You're finding out that the Fusion CONTINUES to surprise . . . .

'bout time for a Fusion2, but sadly Alesis/InMusic don't agree . . . .

If you feel like stumping up for some SHIPPING - there's a very nice Fully expanded 8HD going here for £500 . . . .

https://fusioneer.proboards.com/thread/ ... fusion-8hd

It's "the other" Fusion specific Forum . . . .

Chris
Alesis Fusions 8SSD + 6SSD/384Mb/120Gb SSD/Yamaha SY85/8.5Mb/1024kb/Yamaha MOXF6/1024Mb Flash/Akai ADVANCE61/NI Komplete11 Ultimate/Roland MT32/Bachmann double overstrung Baby Grand Piano/Win10 Pro/Ubuntu Mate 15.04/M-Audio MicroTrack

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Re: Audio recording-gain control

Post by Jokeyman123 »

I already have 2 8HD's! Coincidentally, going for a back MRI next Friday! That's what I get for slinging these 2 around-and the TS-12. I'm not a body-builder!!!!!

But seriously, it took a lot of physical labor to get these right-only because of the keybed problems-which took alot of work as you can see from the 6HD repair you have been doing-how did that come out?

I am re-designing how I work here-i have one 8HD in the loft with a massive Zoom MRS1608 deck, a few guitars and a Yamaha WX wind controller to my one Fusion. Beautiful corner spot-I can look out from a picture window to the front yard.

My other Fusion is now in the basement music room-the size of a small bedroom with an MRS1266 deck, several other instruments-including my malletkat, my DTXtreme drumkit, a few more string instruments and keys-again all connected to this Fusion. The fantastic thing about this-is that the sequencer can record direct from the Yamaha WX's and the Malletkat, then I have the audio recorder tracks which i can feed directly for mikes, acoustic instruments or from other small mixing boards or my powered mixer which I use a monitor system. in other words, the 2 Fusions have pretty much enabled me to re-design and simplify my workplaces for music and recording. I just sold my TS-12-as I now realize-the Fusion has duplicated or bettered every sound I could create from the TS-12-and as a full-blown sampler, (I spent alot of time creating and organizing samples for the TS-12) bested it in that area too. Hypothetically-I could use the Fusion as a "cart" as in a radio station for spots-or for podcasts since it is so easy to load one-shot samples across the keys, which I am also re-thinking. fantastic tool for a variety of things.
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Re: Audio recording-gain control

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Have to admit to being intrigued by the WX with the Fusions PM programs . . . . ?

Unfortunately, I have no experience at all with "Reeds". The only "wind" I ever played was Flute (at school), so I did think about considering

one of those strange little Casio "Horns" . . . .

Last time I saw a MalletKat I think was with Dweezil's "Zappa Plays Zappa" outfit, in a YT video . . . .

Ruth Underwood was somethin' wasn't she? :dance:

Chris
Alesis Fusions 8SSD + 6SSD/384Mb/120Gb SSD/Yamaha SY85/8.5Mb/1024kb/Yamaha MOXF6/1024Mb Flash/Akai ADVANCE61/NI Komplete11 Ultimate/Roland MT32/Bachmann double overstrung Baby Grand Piano/Win10 Pro/Ubuntu Mate 15.04/M-Audio MicroTrack

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Re: Audio recording-gain control

Post by Jokeyman123 »

I have both the WX7 and WX11-which I deduced are more comfortable to play than the WX5. These feel more like real woodwinds compared to the Casio, which I played when it first came out-and are tremendously overpriced now on the used market-are toys comared to the Yamahas. I also play woodwinds-have a collection of recorders for playing irish and older music and a soprano sax. The Wx's are challenging-don't need the strong embouchure of a true acoustic woodwind, which make it tricky for a woodwind player used to acoustic instruments, but i can record directly to the Fusion midi sequencer tracks, and it works well.

Ruth Underwood-now you are in my domain, she is a virtuoso. i used to have to cover my mallet instruments with a cloth-so i couldn't see the notes-like playing with your eyes closed. WE (the NJ Percussion Ensemble) were playing-around 1969-70 the type of music that influenced some of Zappa's more advanced compositions-Colgrass, Stockhausen, Varese, Cage, Crumb many others. I switched majors in college just to be in this group when I saw them perform a Cage piece on campus-were light-years ahead of anything going on back in 1970. I had to fight to get accepted into the music program as back then-the music dept consisted of students that were already classical "virtuosos" so the professors wouldn't have to teach them anything, and i was merely a drummer couldn't even read music-yet. Except for Ray who changed everything there. My mentor Ray DesRoches was a perfectionist-very demanding and consequently I had to play monster mallet parts I thought I never could-but Ray got these out of us. Yegods, he was working with Pierre Boulez with the NY Philharmonic back in the 60s-70's and the New Music Group out of NY while he was creating the NJ Percussion Ensemble with us in it-we had to be monster players or he wouldn't give us the part! and he had already performed with some of the be-bop jazz monsters in the early 50s-knew Ray Brown, Ed Thigpen, Kenny Clarke-who many claimed the term be-bop came from-from the type of sounds Kenny was playing on the kit, was a contemporary of Ray. Ray was the driving force in getting the jazz degree progam stsrted there-breaking the model of strictly classically-trained students by developing the NJ Percussion Ensemble righ there in the music department, and bringing in jazz players he knew. Hell, I go to study with Thad Jones for arranging, what an amazing musician he was. Look at William Paterson now, has one of the finest jazz depts. in the US but didn't even exist until Ray got there-knew how to get things done! and after playing some of the avante-garde stuff, spoiled me for alot of other cr** ELP, Yes, Jethro Tull (an advanced jazz flutist by the way-emulated Herbie Mann on flute I understand).

And Mr. Zappa-(sidebar) I found in my Grove's music encyclopedia to my shock an italian composer/performer in the 1700s I think-named Francesco Zappa, I am not making this up-and Frank Zappa did not change his name, this is his birth-name. Synchronicity.

I have Ed Mann's (Zappa percussionist with Ruth Underwood)-original Simmons mallet-before the Malletkat Simmons made this midi mallet instrument which I've been trying to restore, haven't had much luck. Has an incredible sounding analog tone module that I did have working for awhile-designed for mallet-type sounds specifically. Have a box-full of replacement parts for it too and its pedals-definitely was played! I bought it years ago from someone in California who claimed to be one of Zappa's roadies, although I have no doumentation-but i did spot Ed playing one in a Zappa video so it might be.

Certainly nothing like wacking the baloney out of a good aluminum vibraphone-or splintering a wood xylophone or marimba-and imagine playing a brass almglocken with brass mallets-at forte levels, and many times just to get the passages correctly executed! I had to play three different parts in three separate performances for just "Ionization" by Varese. My favorite was the gong part-5 of them, and i was only one of the players, fantastic stuff. The air-raid siren we had for this piece-made it worth struggling to learn the parts. Pretty much had to live at William Paterson just to stay on top of all these percussion pieces-was minoring in piano to boot-well it is a percussion instrument.

There is a grand piano part in Ionisation, and 2 in "Music for a Summer Evening" y George Crumb-I didn't perform in that piece, but Ray did at the premiere performance I think in 1974 as one of the 2 percussionists in it, he invited some of us students to be there and i went. There is a section where Ray played a slide whistle-yes-a slide whistle-into the harp of the piano that was amplified-while chords were silently held down-to bring out incredible snoroities i had never heard-and both percussionists are performing a duet like this-live at Alice Tully hall-could be the most beautiful thing I ever heard-the harmonies and echos-plus the harmonics from the piano harps coming out-i can't even describe what this sounded like live-I never listened to music the same way again! It sounded like voices were inside the piano and singing out at us, incredible.

So the malletkat, as awful as it is compared to the real thing, at least i can work on some semblence of technique-and this too, will record through midi directly to the Fusion. The mallet sounds out of the Fusion are very good, respond well to dynamics. But would still rather have the real things to smash about on-way too costly and I'd need to add a huge room to this already overly music instrument stuffed home I live in. God bless my wife-she puts up with 3 different music rooms. Well, she knew what she was getting into!!!!! I still don't like to play too loudly when she's around-I am afraid i might get a musical instrument implant somewhere on my person.
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Re: Audio recording-gain control

Post by parametric »

Yeah Joe - One can only imagine Ruth's reticence to having holes drilled in her Marimba when Frank coerced her into allowing him to

electrify it . . . It's in one or other of the documentaries I've seen . . .

She's in fine form on the "Inca Roads" video on YT . . .





and OF COURSE, the unforgettably DEVILISH spot she has on

"St Alphonso's Pancake Breakfast" :o

Chris
Alesis Fusions 8SSD + 6SSD/384Mb/120Gb SSD/Yamaha SY85/8.5Mb/1024kb/Yamaha MOXF6/1024Mb Flash/Akai ADVANCE61/NI Komplete11 Ultimate/Roland MT32/Bachmann double overstrung Baby Grand Piano/Win10 Pro/Ubuntu Mate 15.04/M-Audio MicroTrack

https://chrisnmiller.co.uk/Chris
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Re: Audio recording-gain control

Post by Jokeyman123 »

Fantastic-a genius who worked fanatically on many things-I have been a fan since the firsst album-and I still have it. "Freakout". Like a true leader-he precipitated the careers of many virtuosi-look at the roster of guitar, keyboard, woodwind players who went through Zappa's band. "The present day composer refuses to die" was his famous quote taken from Varese, who was fighting for present day composers back then. Not much has changed in the US at least. I experienced this with Ray Des Roches-who had direct connections to many of the new composers, and we regularly reviewed new compositions coming in, within the style of mostly percussion works-but crossed over to electronic music and pieces utlizing solo parts for other non-percussive instruments. Very hard for new composers to get a hearing anywhere. the new streaming media-soundcloud, spotify or other outlets for composing-not the same. here is the Simmons silicon mallet I have.

https://www.matrixsynth.com/2007/03/sim ... vibes.html
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