Fusion and midi implementation-again

A section for midi or computer related questions.

Moderators: Jesse, parametric

Post Reply
User avatar
Jokeyman123
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 278
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:56 pm
Do you own a fusion?: Yes
Location: United States
Contact:

Fusion and midi implementation-again

Post by Jokeyman123 »

Since I enjoy banging my head on things that don't seem to work-I am going to do some sysex experiments-throw some sysex streams at the Fusion and see if it does anything-worst scenario-it bollocks' up the OS, and I've saved everything on the computer already, can re-install. Despite seeing how much Maestropiero and others struggled to open up some of the Fusion's double secret probation code-pretty well too looks like-why would Alesis claim-on their midi implementation chart-that sysex and CC messages can be sent and received? They don't say what!!!!!! Unless they were lying (a possibility seeing how many turned against Alesis) although I'd like to see them in a better light :oops: ....but its getting a little dark in here..... :whistle: going to throw some stuff from my microkontrol into this, and see if it responds to anything externally. Why bother...refer to beginning of post....but seeing how some developers have gone with older machines creating software "front-ends" at:

https://ctrlr.org/

even though i have very slim sysex chops-if posted to the ctrlr website, I'm wondering if any of these developer's who may like to walk down dark roads without a flashlight-might create something that would make the Fusion a little easier visually to work with. For example-an editor for one of the sound engines-maybe the VA.
User avatar
Jesse
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 1638
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 5:49 pm
Do you own a fusion?: Yes
Location: Wilmington, NC USA

Re: Fusion and midi implementation-again

Post by Jesse »

Good Luck it's like strolling around on the dark side of the Moon with out a super bright LED flashlight

https://www.alesismusic.com/viewtopic.php?t=6964
Tempus & Ludwig Drums, Roto Toms, Djembe, Bongo's, Ibanez Bass, Fusion8HD, SUMO300 Amps, Alesis16 Firewire Mixer, AKG D112, Behringer B2, Shure Beta 58a Microphones, Windows 10, Audigy Soundcard, Audition 3, Sony MDR-7506 Headphones, Kontakt 6 & East West Goliath Sound Banks
User avatar
Jokeyman123
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 278
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:56 pm
Do you own a fusion?: Yes
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: Fusion and midi implementation-again

Post by Jokeyman123 »

Yep Jesse, I read that discouraging post, and several others related-I'm still going to give it a whack. Maybe Alesis accidentally left some working sysex code in there, and completely forgot about it. :violin: Not that this is really necessary-but it could lead to something more useful as i mentioned. I wonder had Steve from Hollow Sun ever looked a this sysex omission. If anyone would have known if there's any bark left on this sysex tree.....he would have.

Has anyone ever tried-besides bank and program changes-to send CC messages into the Fusion to see if it responds at all? I did manage to ride another dead donkey-the Casio PX350 digital piano-that seemed to have no external midi control possible-I did manage to at least finagle (my word of the day) controlling reverb and chorus depth-as well as expression out of it with my external controllers-with standard CC messages. And pan-but only in a very limited not-too-useful way. As soon as i'd try to record-it would reset itself back to the factory settings for whatever CC i had sent. But this at least had a detailed midi implementation chart, easy enough to do. Signing off for today....
User avatar
parametric
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 817
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2010 1:22 pm
Do you own a fusion?: Yes
Location: Watford UK
Contact:

Re: Fusion and midi implementation-again

Post by parametric »

It's a real shame.

With Yamaha Boards - there are usually THREE Manuals. <User Guide>, <Reference> and <DATA FORMAT>

There was never (AFAIK) a Data Format published for the Fusion.

The .reabank file I made for Reaper did work, if only for the ROM-based content (beyond that - each Fusion is "different" . . .

But the LSB/MSB situation was STRANGE - both being Zero IIRC . . . .

Interesting project - to send various sysexes to it and see if it responds . . .

DO remember to write the Q/As down joe, as you may be the only one who has done this? :ugeek:

Chris
Alesis Fusions 8SSD + 6SSD/384Mb/120Gb SSD/Yamaha SY85/8.5Mb/1024kb/Yamaha MOXF6/1024Mb Flash/Akai ADVANCE61/NI Komplete11 Ultimate/Roland MT32/Bachmann double overstrung Baby Grand Piano/Win10 Pro/Ubuntu Mate 15.04/M-Audio MicroTrack

https://chrisnmiller.co.uk/Chris
User avatar
Jokeyman123
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 278
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:56 pm
Do you own a fusion?: Yes
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: Fusion and midi implementation-again

Post by Jokeyman123 »

Some progress-although I haven't tested any particular sysex codes yet, still getting this set up-a little rusty with my microKontrol. However-so far all the CC I sent worked-same as a DAW so no surprises yet. Transport controls work remotely, stop, start, pan, expression-effects send for reverb-the micro is great in that it can send precise sysex strings to a huge variety of functions-filters, LFO's, choosing oscillators remotely so there might be alot more here than I've had the time to find. But its promising-that all the common control change messages respond, and both in program and song mode, no problems there but nothing new to all here already. If I can stumble across the sysex messages for even a few of the synth programming functions, sample editing etc. I will post what I find here. If bei can get some sysex data-I might be able to create a simple program editor for VA, samples, maybe even FM although all this is pretty clear on the screen-after seeing Steve's work with software VA synths-would be nice to extend that work. Sorting files and translating samples useful as those are, for those of us with not so good eyes...a big computer screen for drawing waveshapes, choosing oscillators, LFO's and the 32 modulation schemes etc. might be nice. No DAW I know of can "read' the Fusion and set it up automatically as some of the other software DAWs can with specific workstations. I can (I think) design a template from whatever responds to the microKontrol-and store as a complete set of controls for the Fusion, but it saves its template in its own format-makes the micro a dedicated fusion remote device. Could work but I'd have to translate/design any sysex message to a software control-a software control surface and editor for the Fusion. with CTRLR it is possible.
User avatar
Drummond
General
General
Posts: 92
Joined: Thu May 30, 2013 5:15 am
Do you own a fusion?: Yes
Contact:

Re: Fusion and midi implementation-again

Post by Drummond »

Maybe a good start could be trying to send ccs and system exclusive that other alesis gear respond to like alesis qs, ion, andromeda etc
Access Virus B; Akai MPD18; Alesis Fusion 6HD, 384mb, 64gb ssd; Behringer FCB1010 x2; Behringer Model D; Casio MT600 and PT82; Hammond XK1C; Korg Kronos, 3gb/288gb; Korg Trinity Pro (solo-tri); Korg NanoPad 2; Moog Slim Phatty; Novation X-Station 61; Oberheim Matrix 1000; Univox Compac II; Yamaha Modx6; Cubase 11; Steinberg UR824 + 2 ADA8000; Motu Microlite; ESI M4UXL; DoReMidi Hub-3
User avatar
Jokeyman123
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 278
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:56 pm
Do you own a fusion?: Yes
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: Fusion and midi implementation-again

Post by Jokeyman123 »

Thanks Drummond, a very good idea-and those are all documented I hope. I'll browse around for the manuals, midi implementation if these are documented-very good idea. The nice thing about the microKontrol-yes an older controller-but I can directly type in sysex commands with its keypads in hex or decimal-and send out to midi-repeating my sysex "chops" are pretty weak only because I've usually just depended on CC messages, but with the right docs I'll manage. And CC messages can be programmed separately for each rotary and slide pot-plus programmed into the keypad, not uncommon with newer controllers-but I stuck with the microkontrol for this reason-thought its design was pretty well organized for its time, especially for things like this.

Just an afterthought-I bet the Andromeda would be the best to look over-its modulation routings look very similar to the Fusion's but with hardware instead of software menus. almost as if the engineers at the time decided-wouldn't if be handy to have all these Fusion routings accessible via hardware-and it will only cost 5000 US dollars, gulp! I'll keep my Fusions. D^^ these sound nice-just spent 2 hours on 2 classical pieces, and my organ and piano jazz chops-I love the keys on the 8HDs.
User avatar
Jesse
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 1638
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 5:49 pm
Do you own a fusion?: Yes
Location: Wilmington, NC USA

Re: Fusion and midi implementation-again

Post by Jesse »

Other Alesis Keyboards and Hardware

https://www.alesismusic.com/viewforum.php?f=48
Tempus & Ludwig Drums, Roto Toms, Djembe, Bongo's, Ibanez Bass, Fusion8HD, SUMO300 Amps, Alesis16 Firewire Mixer, AKG D112, Behringer B2, Shure Beta 58a Microphones, Windows 10, Audigy Soundcard, Audition 3, Sony MDR-7506 Headphones, Kontakt 6 & East West Goliath Sound Banks
User avatar
Jokeyman123
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 278
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:56 pm
Do you own a fusion?: Yes
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: Fusion and midi implementation-again

Post by Jokeyman123 »

Whew.. well maybe not the Andromeda...its programming capabilities with sysex is mind-boggling! I did study this over. Maybe the Ion or Micron might be a simpler place to start, digging into www.ctrlr.com, trying to create a few simple software rotary controls. If I get some Fusion sysex messages that work, I can design a simple software interface for a few functions to start. I see how to set up button interfaces for sequencer start/stop so far-and effects depth or send but have to discover how this works for Fusion programs, and then possibly for programs set up in a mix or song. If anyone wants to pitch in to help-ctrlr is a bare software template that runs in Windows and Linux. I have and use a killer front end someone created for the MC505 and its bloody brilliant! I'm not sure what is being used as its base, it is open source, might be Python. Still struggling a bit understanding sysex strings, I see the Andromeda has a unique identifier to get into its sysex, that's what worries me the most. If the Fusion has one, and Alesis never documented it, I'm sadly finished but could still do a GUI for whatever cc's I have, and will continue to test. So far looks like the Fusion is using all standard CC's. It's the unassigned controllers that might be a place to test and I will-getting a bit tired, need to rest....as Gumby said....My brain hurts!!!!
gumby2.jpg
gumby2.jpg (25.16 KiB) Viewed 574 times
Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post