Has Anyone Heard Any Pops or Cicks?

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Has Anyone Heard Any Pops or Cicks?

Post by SEA »

I was showing a fellow studio owner some of the new demos of the Fusion and he said he could hear some hi end pops and clips. :shock:

He said he could hear it on the Fusion Synthi demo around 2:07, 2:09. 2:11. At 2:57 is pretty noticeable he says. Like as if you were clipping your nails. :?

He says he had noticed this with other Alesis synths.. like it wasn't just in the recording, but more the way the synth handled the hi gain... a problem with Alesis synths (his opinion).

Has anyone else heard anything like this at all?

Thanks!

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Post by hephiroth »

i've noticed that some demo recordings have "clipping" in them due to improper recording levels. i recommend actually getting your hands on a unit to hear for yourself that there are no pops (and there aren't)

-jeff-
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Post by SEA »

hephiroth wrote:i've noticed that some demo recordings have "clipping" in them due to improper recording levels. i recommend actually getting your hands on a unit to hear for yourself that there are no pops (and there aren't)

-jeff-
I asked him if it was the mp3... he said "No it's in the synth" So I suggested he'd play one live.

Personally I can't here it myself. He thinks maybe my ears have a slight loss of the highs. :lol:

I'm gonna have a few others listen as well. See if they can hear it ;)

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Post by aztechjohn »

Some of the sounds have clicks and pops if too many notes are played. This was brought up in a thread a long time ago but I couldnt find it for you.

You can tell if it is the system overloading on some sounds by the fact that whatever effect in inserted will follow the pops, for example a "click" with delay or a pop with "reverb"

I think there should have be a preventative measure put into place so this cannot occur and added this to a feature request awhile ago.

You may be hearing those pops and clicks.
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Post by hephiroth »

well, that is true. that won't happen if you have the overlap release set higher than "none," but that creates issues with re-striking the same note with the damper held down.

i agree that they REALLY need a preventative measure like aztechjohn was saying...it's one of the major bugs right now as far as i'm concerned

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Post by Hollow Sun »

I am not aware of any offensive clicks and pops in the audio demo you refer to and listening to the demo again at the times you specify, I am not hearing anything that your 'golden eared' friend suggests.

There is an occasional issue on Fusion in extreme cases where voice stealing can sometimes exhibit some clicks but this inevitably involves densely layered sounds with very long releases that employ use of the sustain pedal with (typically) long, luxurious layered pads, etc..

The audio demo in question uses none of these sounds and so I find it unlikely that that this is the root of the alleged problem your friend refers to - the sounds are quite bouncy and staccatto and any reference to this 'issue' is likely to be a red herring and misleading.

If this is the only audio demo your friend claims to hear these artefacts on, more likely perhaps that it's an encoding problem of that particular MP3... or a reproduction problem on your system (soundcard dependent perhaps?). I certainly can't hear anything untoward despite repeated listenings. Almost 900 people have listened to it at the forum (and no doubt countless more at Alesis' own site) but not a single mention of the issue.... until now. And I have come to know Falcon (Paul Van Der Valk) who made this demo - he's a perfectionist who wouldn't let cr&p like that pass by him by unnoticed.

I am not disputing your friend's claims (well ... maybe I am!) but I too am a golden ears and have pretty damned good hearing (I make a living as a sound designer which requires microscopic analysis of sound and I can spot a miniscule click at a thousand paces!) but I can't detect the things that your friend claims to hear.

Not sure why you raised this here over an MP3, known for artefacts!
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Post by SEA »

Hollow Sun wrote:I am not aware of any offensive clicks and pops in the audio demo you refer to and listening to the demo again at the times you specify, I am not hearing anything that your 'golden eared' friend suggests.

There is an occasional issue on Fusion in extreme cases where voice stealing can sometimes exhibit some clicks but this inevitably involves densely layered sounds with very long releases that employ use of the sustain pedal with (typically) long, luxurious layered pads, etc..

The audio demo in question uses none of these sounds and so I find it unlikely that that this is the root of the alleged problem your friend refers to - the sounds are quite bouncy and staccatto and any reference to this 'issue' is likely to be a red herring and misleading.

If this is the only audio demo your friend claims to hear these artefacts on, more likely perhaps that it's an encoding problem of that particular MP3... or a reproduction problem on your system (soundcard dependent perhaps?). I certainly can't hear anything untoward despite repeated listenings. Almost 900 people have listened to it at the forum (and no doubt countless more at Alesis' own site) but not a single mention of the issue.... until now. And I have come to know Falcon (Paul Van Der Valk) who made this demo - he's a perfectionist who wouldn't let cr&p like that pass by him by unnoticed.

I am not disputing your friend's claims (well ... maybe I am!) but I too am a golden ears and have pretty damned good hearing (I make a living as a sound designer which requires microscopic analysis of sound and I can spot a miniscule click at a thousand paces!) but I can't detect the things that your friend claims to hear.

Not sure why you raised this here over an MP3, known for artefacts!
Thanks Steve for your help!

BTW - my "golden eared" friend loves the new HS demos on the Alesis site. He says it reminds him of Jean Michel Jarre :wink:

I take what he says with a grain of salt too. I also think some people can hear things because they are "looking" to hear things. Maybe from past experiences with other synths that had problems. Who knows right?

I certainly haven't heard what he claims he hears, and others on the forum haven't heard it either (from what I've seen).

And though my ears may not be perfect (who's is) they certaintly are good! And... if I can't hear it and YOU and others can't hear it then, who's gonna hear it! :lol:

As for me... I form my own opinions based on my own experiences. However, there is wisdom in the counsel of others.

I have always found it to be helpful to get some good solid feedback!

Like they say..."If it ain't broke... don't fix it right?"

Thanks again Steve for your help!

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Post by jiffy »

I was showing a fellow studio owner some of the new demos of the Fusion and he said he could hear some hi end pops and clips.

He said he could hear it on the Fusion Synthi demo around 2:07, 2:09. 2:11. At 2:57 is pretty noticeable he says. Like as if you were clipping your nails.
As a test for your friend, re-do the mp3 and delete a set amount of time from the start, (ie 30 seconds or so), and see if he still spots the "clicks and pops" where he said they were on the original.

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Post by SEA »

Hmm.. Maybe a I could! But he'd know that I did that for sure :wink: and he'd STILL hear it knowing him!

I would like to do one myself for him (if I had the Fusion) and don't tell him what synth it is (like, tell him it's the Triton or something). He likes Korg! :P

Still waiting for the $$$ for FUSION 8 HD :cry:

Also if they are going to come out with a BEEFED up FUSION II with mic pres, mastering tools, etc. it might be worth waiting a few months :lol:

AHH.. might just have to get the Fusion I and THEN upgrade! :)

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Post by theyarecomingforyou »

SEA wrote:Also if they are going to come out with a BEEFED up FUSION II with mic pres, mastering tools, etc. it might be worth waiting a few months :lol:
The Fusion with mic pres? That's just wishful thinking. :P
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Re: Has Anyone Heard Any Pops or Cicks?

Post by falcon »

SEA wrote:I was showing a fellow studio owner some of the new demos of the Fusion and he said he could hear some hi end pops and clips. :shock:

He said he could hear it on the Fusion Synthi demo around 2:07, 2:09. 2:11. At 2:57 is pretty noticeable he says. Like as if you were clipping your nails. :?
There are indeed some pops in that piece, but these are not caused by the fusion but by the PC audio card losing sync to the ADAT signal. This results in incidental trash data of one sample wide. It's a rather subtle effect. The most noticable one is at 2:40 AFAIC. Your friend must have golden ears indeed if he distinguishes these artifacts at the time-spots you mention :wink:.

I've expressed my concerns about pops some time ago, until it turned out that the ADAT slave was at fault. Now that this is solved (with a card setting in my case), I can only conclude that the fusion has in fact a very clean audio engine. Pitty about the pops in that demo. Perhaps I should re-record it, but currently my DAW is in a terminal state (power/mobo probs :evil:)...
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Re: Has Anyone Heard Any Pops or Cicks?

Post by SEA »

falcon wrote:
SEA wrote:I was showing a fellow studio owner some of the new demos of the Fusion and he said he could hear some hi end pops and clips. :shock:

He said he could hear it on the Fusion Synthi demo around 2:07, 2:09. 2:11. At 2:57 is pretty noticeable he says. Like as if you were clipping your nails. :?
Perhaps I should re-record it, but currently my DAW is in a terminal state (power/mobo probs :evil:)...
Thanks for letting us know what the problem is Falcon!

I'll pass it on to my friend ;)

If you could redo those in the future that would be great :D

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Re: Has Anyone Heard Any Pops or Cicks?

Post by falcon »

SEA wrote:
falcon wrote:
SEA wrote:I was showing a fellow studio owner some of the new demos of the Fusion and he said he could hear some hi end pops and clips. :shock:

He said he could hear it on the Fusion Synthi demo around 2:07, 2:09. 2:11. At 2:57 is pretty noticeable he says. Like as if you were clipping your nails. :?
Perhaps I should re-record it, but currently my DAW is in a terminal state (power/mobo probs :evil:)...
If you could redo those in the future that would be great :D
Done. The re-recorded version is on the Alesis site. (It's a bit of a remix since the original version couldn't be rebuilt completely)
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Re: Has Anyone Heard Any Pops or Cicks?

Post by SEA »

falcon wrote:
SEA wrote:
falcon wrote: Perhaps I should re-record it, but currently my DAW is in a terminal state (power/mobo probs :evil:)...
If you could redo those in the future that would be great :D
Done. The re-recorded version is on the Alesis site. (It's a bit of a remix since the original version couldn't be rebuilt completely)
I like this demo better!! It looks like you enhanced it in some spots.

Perhaps you've had more time getting to know Fusion :wink:

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Re: Has Anyone Heard Any Pops or Cicks?

Post by falcon »

SEA wrote:I like this demo better!! It looks like you enhanced it in some spots.
Yep, tracks are upped from 14 to 16 and some crowded stuff is removed. Also upped the tempo a percentage and a half for a bit more drive and less hang.
Perhaps you've had more time getting to know Fusion :wink:
Could be :wink:. But there's not much new in here. It still conforms to a concept of voluntary limitations:

- No effect tricks. Only a single delay is used. No 'modifiers' are applied.
- Full samples are only used for the background pad and the drums (all ROM). The rest is made up of noise/wave plus VA plus FM.

Considering that only 'naked sounds' are used, I think this is an impressive piece of gear. :)
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